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The Rising of the Shield Hero Discussion

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Posted 4/21/19 , edited 4/22/19

borderliner wrote:
And thus you concede neither Raphtalia nor Naofumi have killed anyone up to this point.

This is the anime, there is clearly a different tone to this telling of the story so its probably a bad idea to confuse it with the source material.


And thus you yet again cannot accept nor abide anyone having even a slightly different opinion than you about a show you like. Regardless of how innocuous it may be.

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Posted 4/21/19 , edited 4/22/19

runec wrote:


borderliner wrote:
And thus you concede neither Raphtalia nor Naofumi have killed anyone up to this point.

This is the anime, there is clearly a different tone to this telling of the story so its probably a bad idea to confuse it with the source material.


And thus you yet again cannot accept nor abide anyone having even a slightly different opinion than you about a show you like. Regardless of how innocuous it may be.



Anyone implies a person, anything would mean the creatures such as the zombie dragon. He is correct that in the anime Raphtalia and Naofumi have yet to kill a single humanoid, even when given multiple opportunities to do so (like the bandits that ambushed them or the guards staging the kidnapping).

There is a vast difference in killing animals and monsters and people. People who work in slaughterhouses or hunt don't become serial killers.
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Posted 4/21/19 , edited 4/22/19
This anime is great, the way Naofumi react to all the bullshit he had been through and change everthing in him is lit af
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Posted 4/22/19 , edited 4/22/19

hammerreborn wrote:
Anyone implies a person, anything would mean the creatures such as the zombie dragon. He is correct that in the anime Raphtalia and Naofumi have yet to kill a single humanoid, even when given multiple opportunities to do so (like the bandits that ambushed them or the guards staging the kidnapping).

There is a vast difference in killing animals and monsters and people. People who work in slaughterhouses or hunt don't become serial killers.


Except, again, we're talking about a scene where she does kill him in the source material and Naofumi has zero objections. But it was changed for some reason in the anime. That was the original point I was making when borderliner dragged it off road just to be pedantic. This scene specifically was changed to make Raph "innocent" of Idol's death. Even though that doesn't track given the lengths both of these characters are willing to go and what they've been through.

You think Naofumi wasn't ready to kill the king and his guards a couple eps ago? He is not the sort of character to get squicky over violence against people all of a sudden. Especially not someone demonstrably worse than the king or Malty. As for Raph, she'd cut you and watch you bleed out in an alley for threatening Naofumi. ;p

As for the difference between Idol and a monster, that is highly debatable as I implied.





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Posted 4/22/19 , edited 4/22/19

runec wrote:


borderliner wrote:
And thus you concede neither Raphtalia nor Naofumi have killed anyone up to this point.

This is the anime, there is clearly a different tone to this telling of the story so its probably a bad idea to confuse it with the source material.


And thus you yet again cannot accept nor abide anyone having even a slightly different opinion than you about a show you like. Regardless of how innocuous it may be.



Wow, that sounds like you trying to ban me from responding to you.

Slightly different and innocuous eh... Doesn't sound like you at all

Except this is not about opinions it's about mangling facts.
(that's silentveil's job)

Or are really opining that any anime has to follow its source material exactly.

As for what you said about Idol ...
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Posted 4/22/19 , edited 4/22/19

runec wrote:


hammerreborn wrote:
Anyone implies a person, anything would mean the creatures such as the zombie dragon. He is correct that in the anime Raphtalia and Naofumi have yet to kill a single humanoid, even when given multiple opportunities to do so (like the bandits that ambushed them or the guards staging the kidnapping).

There is a vast difference in killing animals and monsters and people. People who work in slaughterhouses or hunt don't become serial killers.


Except, again, we're talking about a scene where she does kill him in the source material and Naofumi has zero objections. But it was changed for some reason in the anime. That was the original point I was making when borderliner dragged it off road just to be pedantic. This scene specifically was changed to make Raph "innocent" of Idol's death. Even though that doesn't track given the lengths both of these characters are willing to go and what they've been through.

You think Naofumi wasn't ready to kill the king and his guards a couple eps ago? He is not the sort of character to get squicky over violence against people all of a sudden. Especially not someone demonstrably worse than the king or Malty. As for Raph, she'd cut you and watch you bleed out in an alley for threatening Naofumi. ;p

As for the difference between Idol and a monster, that is highly debatable as I implied.



It is a common conceit that we hold human life as so special that condone the sparing of human toxic waste in the same breath as wanton cruelty to other species. I hope when we meet sophonts who are not us that we don't continue this conceit.

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Posted 4/22/19 , edited 4/22/19

runec wrote:


hammerreborn wrote:
Anyone implies a person, anything would mean the creatures such as the zombie dragon. He is correct that in the anime Raphtalia and Naofumi have yet to kill a single humanoid, even when given multiple opportunities to do so (like the bandits that ambushed them or the guards staging the kidnapping).

There is a vast difference in killing animals and monsters and people. People who work in slaughterhouses or hunt don't become serial killers.


Except, again, we're talking about a scene where she does kill him in the source material and Naofumi has zero objections. But it was changed for some reason in the anime. That was the original point I was making when borderliner dragged it off road just to be pedantic. This scene specifically was changed to make Raph "innocent" of Idol's death. Even though that doesn't track given the lengths both of these characters are willing to go and what they've been through.

You think Naofumi wasn't ready to kill the king and his guards a couple eps ago? He is not the sort of character to get squicky over violence against people all of a sudden. Especially not someone demonstrably worse than the king or Malty. As for Raph, she'd cut you and watch you bleed out in an alley for threatening Naofumi. ;p

As for the difference between Idol and a monster, that is highly debatable as I implied.





Well, I don't know how it happened in the light novel since I skipped over that part (since I've already read the webnovel), but I can only assume it's the same as the manga that follows the light novel. She doesn't actually kill him, she just stabs him in the shoulder before he falls out the window and survives anyways.

So the outcome of the situation is the exact same, just not the spirit. A questionable deviation, sure, but doesn't really change much.

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Posted 4/22/19 , edited 4/23/19

Azepael wrote:
Well, I don't know how it happened in the light novel since I skipped over that part (since I've already read the webnovel), but I can only assume it's the same as the manga that follows the light novel. She doesn't actually kill him, she just stabs him in the shoulder before he falls out the window and survives anyways.

So the outcome of the situation is the exact same, just not the spirit. A questionable deviation, sure, but doesn't really change much.


She runs him through and goes through the window with him. Naofumi has to catch her. She stabs him in the shoulder as her first attack then gets disarmed as she has him pinned to the ground and is about to deliver the killing blow. No commentary from Naofumi or quivering hesitation. She wants the farker dead and is going to kill him. Full stop. The way the manga paints it seemed like she fully intended to drive him out the window as well.

That he pulls a har har, the villain really survived! is kind of an eyeroll ( especially given he's a wet blood splat on the ground in the manga ).

But the problem is it goes against the characterization thus far. He had to go splat out the window but I guess the anime didn't want to impinge Raph's moe waifuness. Naofumi interfering with a moral lecture is pretty much just an excuse to set up a Disney villain death that absolves Raph of murder. Problem, of course, being that high minded morality is the opposite of Naofumi's character even in the anime.

This is the same guy that basically told her he'd have to abandon her if she couldn't deal with killing things that bleed, remember.

I don't think Idol is in the web novel though(?), only the light novel.



papagolfwhiskey wrote:
It is a common conceit that we hold human life as so special that condone the sparing of human toxic waste in the same breath as wanton cruelty to other species. I hope when we meet sophonts who are not us that we don't continue this conceit.


Yes, and Naofumi's lips was pretty much the last place I expected to hear it coming from. I think it's pretty firmly established that Naofumi utterly loathes the people in this world. The monsters are just an obstacle he has to deal with. He has no personal vendetta or emotional baggage with them. Unlike Raph.




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Posted 4/22/19 , edited 4/22/19

runec wrote:


I don't think Idol is in the web novel though(?), only the light novel.


The entire scenario with Raphtalia meeting the slaver is completely absent in the webnovel. It literally cuts straight from Melty throwing a fit about Naofumi not calling her by her name to the events of the next episode (Minus the t-rex).


Yeesh, looking at that reminds me how rough the writing of the webnovel was. EDIT: And 2014. Dang. Doesn't seem like it was that long ago.

As far as the scene itself....well I don't really have an opinion either way about it. As I said, it was absent from the webnovel and I only knew about it from looking at the manga. It doesn't really change the outcome of anything, just the spirit of the moment I guess.

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Posted 4/22/19 , edited 4/23/19
I'm not willing to watch another ten episodes of this even with previous investment taken into account. The show peaked way to early for me. Episode two, three and four were my favorites by far..
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Posted 4/22/19 , edited 4/23/19

Azepael wrote:
Yeesh, looking at that reminds me how rough the writing of the webnovel was. EDIT: And 2014. Dang. Doesn't seem like it was that long ago.

As far as the scene itself....well I don't really have an opinion either way about it. As I said, it was absent from the webnovel and I only knew about it from looking at the manga. It doesn't really change the outcome of anything, just the spirit of the moment I guess.


Yeah, I've tried reading some of the web novel. It's pretty rough and Naofumi's asshole factor is about 5000% higher. Especially towards Filo, yikes. I'm don't really like Filo as a character but still, yikes. At least we seem to have been spared the whole chocobo chapter though. That looked full of edgy cringe.

My only problem with it is was out of character and I'm not sure what the anime was trying to do by changing it. The whole point of the show was Naofumi being at odds with this world, distrustful of basically everyone and willing to do whatever it takes to survive. Its a U turn for him to be spouting high minded trope morality out of no where or for Raph to be listening.

But that's just me critiquing the writing.
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Posted 4/23/19 , edited 4/23/19
Sometimes I wish they had kept to the manga version in this anime adaption.

I don't hate what they have done with it but I prefer the manga version's story.
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Posted 4/23/19 , edited 4/23/19

runec wrote:


Azepael wrote:
Yeesh, looking at that reminds me how rough the writing of the webnovel was. EDIT: And 2014. Dang. Doesn't seem like it was that long ago.

As far as the scene itself....well I don't really have an opinion either way about it. As I said, it was absent from the webnovel and I only knew about it from looking at the manga. It doesn't really change the outcome of anything, just the spirit of the moment I guess.


Yeah, I've tried reading some of the web novel. It's pretty rough and Naofumi's asshole factor is about 5000% higher. Especially towards Filo, yikes. I'm don't really like Filo as a character but still, yikes. At least we seem to have been spared the whole chocobo chapter though. That looked full of edgy cringe.

My only problem with it is was out of character and I'm not sure what the anime was trying to do by changing it. The whole point of the show was Naofumi being at odds with this world, distrustful of basically everyone and willing to do whatever it takes to survive. Its a U turn for him to be spouting high minded trope morality out of no where or for Raph to be listening.

But that's just me critiquing the writing.


Regardless of what you may think about the Web/LN/Manga versions this is the anime version and events need to be judged in context of what is shown in the anime.

Naofumi's character has been pretty consistent throughout, he's a (very) angry young man, rightfully pissed off by his treatment and with utter disdain for the world he's trapped in. But he's not a murderer and he probably thinks Raphtalia shouldn't be one either.

I think the point of the show is that despite the treatment, despite owing no-one anything, despite trying to push people away, at his core he's a decent human being who's first instinct is to save those around him.

He doesn't even appear keen to let people die by his omission



and remember this is the knight who just casually ordered the firebombing of the village he was in.
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Posted 4/23/19 , edited 4/23/19

runec wrote:

but I guess the anime didn't want to impinge Raph's moe waifuness.

And you think this is a problem?!?
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Posted 4/23/19 , edited 4/23/19

borderliner wrote:
and remember this is the knight who just casually ordered the firebombing of the village he was in.


and remember moments before that Raph tried to kill that knight for threatening Naofumi? Then threatened to kill him to his face? Then Naofumi threatened them with death himself at the hands of the monsters? The knight is more useful alive to fight the wave than dead in that scene. Naofumi will use whatever or whomever he has to ( That's kind of the entire reason he has Raph to begin with you know. ).

Also, thanks for providing an example of Raph 100% ready to kill a human being without any hesitation and Naofumi having no morale problem with it whatsoever thus cementing my previous point. -.-






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