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Projects. Aside from your main Focus. Stress testing your mind

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Posted 6/3/18 , edited 6/3/18
So, I have a challenge I guess. Feel free to do it if you want or feel free to ignore me if you want.

Its simple: Write a normal conversation.

It can be about any topic you want, as long as that topic is normal (and I can give you a more detailed prompt if you want me to), but I'm curious, if you cut out all of the fantasy elements and implied deeplore, what are you left with? And of course, I shouldn't need to remind you, but normal does not mean boring. Make it entertaining, but grounded.

If you want to, that is. I'm just curious.
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Posted 6/3/18 , edited 6/3/18

sundin13 wrote:

So, I have a challenge I guess. Feel free to do it if you want or feel free to ignore me if you want.

Its simple: Write a normal conversation.

It can be about any topic you want, as long as that topic is normal (and I can give you a more detailed prompt if you want me to), but I'm curious, if you cut out all of the fantasy elements and implied deeplore, what are you left with? And of course, I shouldn't need to remind you, but normal does not mean boring. Make it entertaining, but grounded.

If you want to, that is. I'm just curious.



Oh don't worry, I know people just eat that up.

Normal conversation. I guess nothing normal could eventually happen.

Here is a normal conversation about finding out the person you have feelings towards is an Exotic Dancer. Enjoy

Normal conversation can mean a lot of things, liking something because its not normal makes all the difference. I mean, how many dancers are out there right now? How many exotic dancers? The reality can one day be true.
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Posted 6/3/18 , edited 6/3/18

Humms wrote:
Oh don't worry, I know people just eat that up.

Normal conversation. I guess nothing normal could eventually happen.

Here is a normal conversation about finding out the person you have feelings towards is an Exotic Dancer. Enjoy

Normal conversation can mean a lot of things, liking something because its not normal makes all the difference. I mean, how many dancers are out there right now? How many exotic dancers? The reality can one day be true.
A secret



I mean, you seem to have deliberately gone out of your way to not write to my extremely easy prompt, but whatever, I'll let it slide.

It was okay. I do think it was better than a lot of your other dialogue writing. The reason I asked you to do this was because I feel like whenever I read your writing, you try to pack in so much behind the scenes that it loses all meaning to the reader. Like, your characters are always talking in code. Writing about something normal strips away a lot of that subtext and shows how you write just actual human conversations that don't sound like people whispering passwords to gain access to a cult hideaway. To some extent, you sidestepped that my ignoring the prompt, but it was still a step closer to normal than what you typically write.

As for the writing, I got what was going on, more or less. I mean, as always I need to suggest you stop writing with that weird present tense screenplay narration, but that isn't what this is about so I'll not harp on that too much.

I added my play-by-play critique to your above writing.

And when you are done reading that, here is my overall critique:

The characters are not very well developed. They seem to flip at a moments notice and I can't keep up with all of those major shifts. I don't understand the motivations/goals of either character. As for the writing itself, most of it was understandable, but it lacked a lot in interest and personality. The abnormal situation you put the characters in was a bit of a crutch used to get around the lack of anything really grabbing me in the writing.

Wait, he has feelings for her? I just reread the top part of your post again. That was not conveyed well in your writing, like, at all.
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Posted 6/3/18 , edited 6/4/18

sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:
Oh don't worry, I know people just eat that up.

Normal conversation. I guess nothing normal could eventually happen.

Here is a normal conversation about finding out the person you have feelings towards is an Exotic Dancer. Enjoy

Normal conversation can mean a lot of things, liking something because its not normal makes all the difference. I mean, how many dancers are out there right now? How many exotic dancers? The reality can one day be true.
A secret



I mean, you seem to have deliberately gone out of your way to not write to my extremely easy prompt, but whatever, I'll let it slide.

It was okay. I do think it was better than a lot of your other dialogue writing. The reason I asked you to do this was because I feel like whenever I read your writing, you try to pack in so much behind the scenes that it loses all meaning to the reader. Like, your characters are always talking in code. Writing about something normal strips away a lot of that subtext and shows how you write just actual human conversations that don't sound like people whispering passwords to gain access to a cult hideaway. To some extent, you sidestepped that my ignoring the prompt, but it was still a step closer to normal than what you typically write.

As for the writing, I got what was going on, more or less. I mean, as always I need to suggest you stop writing with that weird present tense screenplay narration, but that isn't what this is about so I'll not harp on that too much.

I added my play-by-play critique to your above writing.

And when you are done reading that, here is my overall critique:

The characters are not very well developed. They seem to flip at a moments notice and I can't keep up with all of those major shifts. I don't understand the motivations/goals of either character. As for the writing itself, most of it was understandable, but it lacked a lot in interest and personality. The abnormal situation you put the characters in was a bit of a crutch used to get around the lack of anything really grabbing me in the writing.

Wait, he has feeling for her? I just reread your post again. That was not conveyed well in your writing, like, at all.



xD because you realize that this particular scene is pretty much halfway to 3/4 into that story. Oh wait, you don't, Because I thought, hey! what the hell, Ill go out of my way to show some true emotions from my characters on a non secure forum page, but will anyone care? probably not.


My characters aren't well developed. Well I'm sorry to hear that They flip at any moment? I don't understand what you mean?

You can't keep up? I'ts not a finished product, so I don't expect you to. I'm sorry I don't have a studio I can freely access with a team.

You got what was going on, more or less.

Humor me please. What do you even know about my characters? Nothing? because that should be closer to your answer, unless by chance this is some divine intervention.

Go ahead and give me a prompt, and lets see if I can really go out of my way to give you something. I highlighted it so your mind could see the importance.

im sorry I cant write about some slice of life rom com material for you about some aspiring students who just want to have fun and study, and being misunderstood while carrying personal problems and emotions.

and I dont think I can do small talk either. I think I mentioned that somewhere. Lets go get some coffee and chat for a bit? Oh We bump into each other like this too often, are you stalking me?

I want to see this simple Prompt, I'm curious






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Posted 6/3/18 , edited 6/3/18

Humms wrote:


xD because you realize that this particular scene is pretty much halfway to 3/4 into that story. Oh wait, you don't, Because I thought, hey! what the hell, Ill go out of my way to show some true emotions from my characters on a non secure forum page, but will anyone care? probably not.


My characters aren't well developed. Well I'm sorry to hear that They flip at any moment? I don't understand what you mean?

You can't keep up? I'ts not a finished product, so I don't expect you to. I'm sorry I don't have a studio I can freely access with a team.

You got what was going on, more or less.

Humor me please. What do you even know about my characters? Nothing? because that should be closer to your answer, unless by chance this is some divine intervention.

Go ahead and give me a prompt, and lets see if I can really go out of my way to give you something. I highlighted it so your mind could see the importance.

im sorry I cant write about some slice of life rom com material for you about some aspiring students who just want to have fun and study, and being misunderstood while carrying personal problems and emotions.

and I dont think I can do small talk either. I think I mentioned that somewhere. Lets go get some coffee and chat for a bit? Oh We bump into each other like this too often, are you stalking me?

I want to see this simple Prompt, I'm curious


Wait, am I understanding what you are saying? Not only did you not really follow the prompt, but you didn't even write anything for it? You just copy/pasted some random bit of another story? That entirely betrays the idea of writing for a prompt...

About your small talk comment: Small talk generally shouldn't be in your book unless it has purpose, but that doesn't mean every conversation needs to be some dramatic showdown. Generally, you need to simply keep in mind what the goals of the characters are and where you want this conversation to bring them because simple conversations are the backbone of every good story. Even big fantasy stories are often centered around simple conversations.

But you want another prompt now? Okay, I'll think of something.

Strangers hiding from the rain together.

There you go. Again, I can give you more, but I think that would sort of betray the point of a writing prompt.

EDIT: Oh, and make sure whatever you write is self-contained.
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Posted 6/3/18 , edited 6/4/18

sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:


xD because you realize that this particular scene is pretty much halfway to 3/4 into that story. Oh wait, you don't, Because I thought, hey! what the hell, Ill go out of my way to show some true emotions from my characters on a non secure forum page, but will anyone care? probably not.


My characters aren't well developed. Well I'm sorry to hear that They flip at any moment? I don't understand what you mean?

You can't keep up? I'ts not a finished product, so I don't expect you to. I'm sorry I don't have a studio I can freely access with a team.

You got what was going on, more or less.

Humor me please. What do you even know about my characters? Nothing? because that should be closer to your answer, unless by chance this is some divine intervention.

Go ahead and give me a prompt, and lets see if I can really go out of my way to give you something. I highlighted it so your mind could see the importance.

im sorry I cant write about some slice of life rom com material for you about some aspiring students who just want to have fun and study, and being misunderstood while carrying personal problems and emotions.

and I dont think I can do small talk either. I think I mentioned that somewhere. Lets go get some coffee and chat for a bit? Oh We bump into each other like this too often, are you stalking me?

I want to see this simple Prompt, I'm curious


Wait, am I understanding what you are saying? Not only did you not really follow the prompt, but you didn't even write anything for it? You just copy/pasted some random bit of another story? That entirely betrays the idea of writing for a prompt...

About your small talk comment: Small talk generally shouldn't be in your book unless it has purpose, but that doesn't mean every conversation needs to be some dramatic showdown. Generally, you need to simply keep in mind what the goals of the characters are and where you want this conversation to bring them because simple conversations are the backbone of every good story. Even big fantasy stories are often centered around simple conversations.

But you want another prompt now? Okay, I'll think of something.

Strangers hiding from the rain together.

There you go. Again, I can give you more, but I think that would sort of betray the point of a writing prompt.

EDIT: Oh, and make sure whatever you write is self-contained.


Well you wanted a normal conversation. I feel normal conversation is deserved once you have figured out your story, then it more or less builds on your characters; which is what you are looking for.

k Ill just post my scene I'm currently visualizing for the next phase and I'll write something for you.

So cliche but ill play along for once


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Posted 6/3/18 , edited 6/4/18

Humms wrote:

Well you wanted a normal conversation. I feel normal conversation is deserved once you have figured out your story, then it more or less builds on your characters; which is what you are looking for.

k Ill just post my scene I'm currently visualizing for the next phase and I'll write something for you.

So cliche but ill play along for once




It isn't cliche unless you let it be
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Posted 6/4/18 , edited 6/4/18

sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:

Well you wanted a normal conversation. I feel normal conversation is deserved once you have figured out your story, then it more or less builds on your characters; which is what you are looking for.

k Ill just post my scene I'm currently visualizing for the next phase and I'll write something for you.

So cliche but ill play along for once




It isn't cliche unless you let it be ;)


The scenario is just a Cliche, I mean I wrote something, but without making it a Cliche, it would just be a coincidence, and basically two individuals talking with or without hiding from the rain, and it would be boring without any coincidence. If I didn't add that last part, I would never consider throwing this scenario in unless they weren't strangers

I give, tell me how you don't make that into a Cliche? Strangers hiding from the rain, so it's about hiding from the rain together, so there has to be a Cliche for it to work. Like 2 people? Because a group of people takes away from the whole experience. Making people just stay in a building, pavilion, bus stop, terminal, from the rain just talking. It's such a simple set up for a scene that it makes it cliche. You just want to see if I can hold a conversation, then you could have just said that

" No chance of rain? " Not bringing with him his trusty umbrella the drops become increasingly worrying. " No, No, come on!" Quickening his pace the rain begins to come down even harder. His mind goes blank for a moment, but finding a nearby pavilion he only sustained a rather soaked figure.

" Great" Slicking his hair back he then takes off his now soaked blazer and tosses it on the bench next to him. *laughing* "Sorry bro" *placing his hands on his face he let's out an annoyed sigh.

A woman running to the same pavilion shrieking in excitement. Not fully aware that she was about to run into the man, she collides with his back.

"Oof!.. Sorry!" Backing away from him

" Don't worry, you made it" not turning to face her, still slightly annoyed from the rain

*laughing* " Can you believe this!?"

The man sits down on the bench next to his soaked blazer to at least find some comfort from the rain. " with my luck I sure can "

" something's got You? Somewhere you needed to be?" *Squeezing out her shirt*

" an exhibition.. an art exhibition, my brother wanted me to go"

" well you sure sound enthused about it" * grabbing hold of her soaked hair she begins to tie it up* getting a good look at the man's full face*

" For the pull that guy has, you think it would make him a better artist. ehh what do you care *chuckle* just venting"

" well" * sitting on top of his blazer* " it's not like you gave a dam about this thing right?"

" Actually I like that Blazer"

*Gasp* " I'm sorry! I can be oblivious sometimes" * quickly getting up, perking her self up"

" it's all good, what use does it have now, nobody to impress. Who am I kidding"

" *smile* are you his moral support?"

"Hey, I try"

" Sometimes that can be bad for someone You know" Folding his blazer and throwing it on his lap*

" Like I'm not soaked enough *Chuckles* Thanks*

" *giggle* sitting back down next to him"

" So for someone in no particular place to be, assuming a woman like yourself shrieking in joy had no plans, maybe this is your lucky day"

" I wasn't shrieking "

" Fine, furiously trying to get to cover"

" I was caught off guard, we all have that blank moment where we trust our instincts"

" But you sounded like you enjoyed it"

" well... It's fun I suppose, when you don't expect something like this to happen....* looking at him* a strange boy you are.

" Don't call me boy"

" you haven't looked at me once, are you shy?"

" No, I just respect a woman who's been soaked from the rain"

" My face is right here" * Assisting him in facing her*

He blushes for a moment " stop"

"You are shy *Laugh* "

" I don't look good with my hair slicked back ok"* trying to style it back"

" You look fine to me, you look very handsome"

*Sigh* "youre enjoying this aren't you"

" A little" *chuckle* so, any women in your life? "

" I think you know the answer to that"

" it's good to get out once and a while, something non family related, have you ever had a girlfriend?"

" Waste of time and money sweety"

"Sweety *raising her eyebrows *

" Have you ever had a boyfriend?"

"What does that matter? Interested in something?

" Just saving you the trouble, for someone so thirsty; there's plenty of water right now"

*she gets up from the bench, making sure she walks right in front of him*

" You know, I was on my way for a drink" * riding her pants up it's almost impossible for him not to get a view* "my name is Samantha, if you were wondering, but my friends call me Sammy"

"What about Sam?"

" I hate when people call me Sam" * Turning towards him*

* finally looking at her with a smile* "My names James"

" Well James, the first rounds on me. you seem like a responsible boy, so why sit here talking in a miserable place like this* stepping out into the rain* * laughing* " come on ! We're already soaked, it's not too far"


For a moment I wasn't really thinking about anything, the fact that this woman somehow ran into me like this, I started thinking about taking that step towards her. Maybe this rain isn't so bad after all.
















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Posted 6/4/18 , edited 6/5/18

Humms wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:

Well you wanted a normal conversation. I feel normal conversation is deserved once you have figured out your story, then it more or less builds on your characters; which is what you are looking for.

k Ill just post my scene I'm currently visualizing for the next phase and I'll write something for you.

So cliche but ill play along for once




It isn't cliche unless you let it be ;)


The scenario is just a Cliche, I mean I wrote something, but without making it a Cliche, it would just be a coincidence, and basically two individuals talking with or without hiding from the rain, and it would be boring without any coincidence. If I didn't add that last part, I would never consider throwing this scenario in unless they weren't strangers

I give, tell me how you don't make that into a Cliche? Strangers hiding from the rain, so it's about hiding from the rain together, so there has to be a Cliche for it to work. Like 2 people? Because a group of people takes away from the whole experience. Making people just stay in a building, pavilion, bus stop, terminal, from the rain just talking. It's such a simple set up for a scene that it makes it cliche. You just want to see if I can hold a conversation, then you could have just said that

" No chance of rain? " Not bringing with him his trusty umbrella the drops become increasingly worrying. " No, No, come on!" Quickening his pace the rain begins to come down even harder. His mind goes blank for a moment, but finding a nearby pavilion he only sustained a rather soaked figure.


The dialogue here is alright, and I don't want to critique the exposition, because you are actually writing like a fiction writer, but I have to. First of all, I'd like more scene and setting building, but the bigger issue is that last sentence. First of all, I feel like people's minds don't go blank from getting rained on. Save that for when your character's family is getting murdered unless they have severe mental issues. Then, the writing in the last bit seems to be trying to get too fancy and strays into the realm of ridiculous. You don't really need to be writing like this is high fantasy (not that I would praise that line in high fantasy) in a story like this.

" Great" Slicking his hair back he then takes off his now soaked blazer and tosses it on the bench next to him. *laughing* "Sorry bro" *placing his hands on his face he let's out an annoyed sigh.

The phrase "sorry bro" can be contextualized a bit, not by telling the viewer why he is apologizing, but by maybe having the character check his watch or his phone or something. A pretty hefty bit of a conversation is non-verbal. Don't forget to make sure your characters aren't just lines of speech, but are full, living human beings (and not just when someone does an action of note like hitting someone, but in all the quiet moments too).

A woman running to the same pavilion shrieking in excitement. Not fully aware that she was about to run into the man, she collides with his back.

First sentence is a fragment again. Watch out for those.

"Oof!.. Sorry!" Backing away from him

" Don't worry, you made it" not turning to face her, still slightly annoyed from the rain

*laughing* " Can you believe this!?"

The man sits down on the bench next to his soaked blazer to at least find some comfort from the rain. " with my luck I sure can "

" something's got You? Somewhere you needed to be?" *Squeezing out her shirt*


You have reverted to the non-literary asterisk exposition... Why???

" an exhibition.. an art exhibition, my brother wanted me to go"

" well you sure sound enthused about it" * grabbing hold of her soaked hair she begins to tie it up* getting a good look at the man's full face*

" For the pull that guy has, you think it would make him a better artist. ehh what do you care *chuckle* just venting"

" well" * sitting on top of his blazer* " it's not like you gave a dam about this thing right?"


I feel like things have gotten too casual too quickly. I really can't imagine two strangers being this casual right off the bat. Most people take some time to let their guards down. Show that. This criticism goes for everything from here on.

" Actually I like that Blazer"

I like that joke.

*Gasp* " I'm sorry! I can be oblivious sometimes" * quickly getting up, perking her self up"

" it's all good, what use does it have now, nobody to impress. Who am I kidding"

" *smile* are you his moral support?"

"Hey, I try"

" Sometimes that can be bad for someone You know" Folding his blazer and throwing it on his lap*

" Like I'm not soaked enough *Chuckles* Thanks*

" *giggle* sitting back down next to him"

" So for someone in no particular place to be, assuming a woman like yourself shrieking in joy had no plans, maybe this is your lucky day"


I'm not really sure what you are trying to say with this? How is this her lucky day? I feel like you need to logic check some of your sentences.

" I wasn't shrieking "

" Fine, furiously trying to get to cover"

" I was caught off guard, we all have that blank moment where we trust our instincts"


But do we? Do we really?

" But you sounded like you enjoyed it"

" well... It's fun I suppose, when you don't expect something like this to happen....* looking at him* a strange boy you are.

" Don't call me boy"

" you haven't looked at me once, are you shy?"

" No, I just respect a woman who's been soaked from the rain"

" My face is right here" * Assisting him in facing her*


TOO MUCH

He blushes for a moment " stop"

"You are shy *Laugh* "

" I don't look good with my hair slicked back ok"* trying to style it back"

" You look fine to me, you look very handsome"


WAY TOO MUCH

*Sigh* "youre enjoying this aren't you"

" A little" *chuckle* so, any women in your life? "

" I think you know the answer to that"

" it's good to get out once and a while, something non family related, have you ever had a girlfriend?"


HOLY TOO MUCH BATMAN

" Waste of time and money sweety"

"Sweety *raising her eyebrows *


I agree with her. Sweetie? Who the heck says sweetie? And this guy in particular? That is a word reserved for old people and sleeze-bags. Not some shy negative-nancy.

" Have you ever had a boyfriend?"

"What does that matter? Interested in something?

" Just saving you the trouble, for someone so thirsty; there's plenty of water right now"


...What? Do we have an edge-lord here or something? Who says that?

*she gets up from the bench, making sure she walks right in front of him*

" You know, I was on my way for a drink" * riding her pants up it's almost impossible for him not to get a view* "my name is Samantha, if you were wondering, but my friends call me Sammy"


*sigh*

"What about Sam?"

Who says that in this situation? That is like a narcissistic boss trying to pull a power move.

" I hate when people call me Sam" * Turning towards him*

* finally looking at her with a smile* "My names James"

" Well James, the first rounds on me. you seem like a responsible boy, so why sit here talking in a miserable place like this* stepping out into the rain* * laughing* " come on ! We're already soaked, it's not too far"


For a moment I wasn't really thinking about anything, the fact that this woman somehow ran into me like this, I started thinking about taking that step towards her. Maybe this rain isn't so bad after all.



In order to make a cliche original, you just have to do something different with it. Make the prompt not the most important part of the scene. You could have written this as a romance (which you did), or on the other hand, you could have written it as a thriller. Or maybe a comedy. Or a Western. Or you could have made the setting the most important part and done some Sci Fi or Fantasy.

That said, that wasn't what this was about. This was about normal dialogue, so I am kind of glad you chose the "cliche" route. One of the good things about cliches is that they make sure you can't hide the strength of your writing. If I've seen something 100 times, it makes it easy to separate how well you are writing from what you are writing.

As far as what you wrote, I think it was some of the best writing I've read from you. It is no publishable short story, but it serves its purpose and it is understandable. Because of that, I would suggest that you ground your dialogue a bit more in your stories. Keep a base to your conversations and build off of that and it will make things much more understandable for your readers.

Now, as for the specific critique of your story, I've added play-by-play above.

For a general breakdown, dialogue is fine, but you can do a lot more with setting a scene and developing your scenario and writing your characters. Then, I think you need to write more natural dialogue. Let your conversations breathe and flow. Don't force them into where you want to go. Otherwise, you start writing things that make the reader think "this character wouldn't say that" and it drags them out of the experience.

Basically, I think you can squeeze a lot more out of your writing, but as a whole, I think the main take away is that I believe that your dialogue writing in your other stories would be a lot better if you grounded it and made it less airy and abstract. If all of your characters speak like Shakespearean characters, you will likely lose most of your readers unless you are Shakespeare, because reading that stuff is exhausting, especially when your grammar doesn't always hold up and your logic isn't as tight as it needs to be.
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Posted 6/5/18 , edited 6/5/18

sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:

Well you wanted a normal conversation. I feel normal conversation is deserved once you have figured out your story, then it more or less builds on your characters; which is what you are looking for.

k Ill just post my scene I'm currently visualizing for the next phase and I'll write something for you.

So cliche but ill play along for once




It isn't cliche unless you let it be ;)




In order to make a cliche original, you just have to do something different with it. Make the prompt not the most important part of the scene. You could have written this as a romance (which you did), or on the other hand, you could have written it as a thriller. Or maybe a comedy. Or a Western. Or you could have made the setting the most important part and done some Sci Fi or Fantasy.

That said, that wasn't what this was about. This was about normal dialogue, so I am kind of glad you chose the "cliche" route. One of the good things about cliches is that they make sure you can't hide the strength of your writing. If I've seen something 100 times, it makes it easy to separate how well you are writing from what you are writing.

As far as what you wrote, I think it was some of the best writing I've read from you. It is no publishable short story, but it serves its purpose and it is understandable. Because of that, I would suggest that you ground your dialogue a bit more in your stories. Keep a base to your conversations and build off of that and it will make things much more understandable for your readers.

Now, as for the specific critique of your story, I've added play-by-play above.

For a general breakdown, dialogue is fine, but you can do a lot more with setting a scene and developing your scenario and writing your characters. Then, I think you need to write more natural dialogue. Let your conversations breathe and flow. Don't force them into where you want to go. Otherwise, you start writing things that make the reader think "this character wouldn't say that" and it drags them out of the experience.

Basically, I think you can squeeze a lot more out of your writing, but as a whole, I think the main take away is that I believe that your dialogue writing in your other stories would be a lot better if you grounded it and made it less airy and abstract. If all of your characters speak like Shakespearean characters, you will likely lose most of your readers unless you are Shakespeare, because reading that stuff is exhausting, especially when your grammar doesn't always hold up and your logic isn't as tight as it needs to be.



Well I thought it was adorable.

Again it was a Cliche, so characters randomly getting comfortable while being strangers is the coincidence of the situation. Strangers hiding from the rain? Come on now, who is naturally going to want a boring outcome. So when you roll your eyes at certain parts, that's what I'm looking for. Maybe to those characters it means something, but to you it doesn't, but yet you did well enough to come along for the ride.

You don't know how old they are. Just little details I think you missed. Folding his blazer, calling him boy, being somewhat physical knowing he wouldn't get angry.

Romance? What if she wanted to show this man a fun time? Teasing someone, do you honestly think she's going to be that gullible? What if this scene was just the build up to romance, what if it wasn't?

What if it rain today? What if it didn't, the cliche. I think what I like to do in situations like these is see what people think when they first see it.

Thank you for your critique. I believe that people do not deserve to fully understand what and who my characters are at this point in time, I understand that the simplicity of just adding dialogue for your characters would make a reader appreciate your story that much more. I can create conversations, but it is best done with my own setting, my own coincidences.

I don't want my stories to be remembered for a "Standard" of what people think is acceptable, I want them to remember why they love something, why they don't mind taking time out of their day to enjoy something.

A standard of what people think is acceptable should be having a heart, having real heart for your stories. Not this format that gets a laugh and profit, I want something real don't you think people want to believe that to?
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Posted 6/5/18 , edited 6/5/18

Humms wrote:

Well I thought it was adorable.

Again it was a Cliche, so characters randomly getting comfortable while being strangers is the coincidence of the situation. Strangers hiding from the rain? Come on now, who is naturally going to want a boring outcome. So when you roll your eyes at certain parts, that's what I'm looking for. Maybe to those characters it means something, but to you it doesn't, but yet you did well enough to come along for the ride.

You don't know how old they are. Just little details I think you missed. Folding his blazer, calling him boy, being somewhat physical knowing he wouldn't get angry.

Romance? What if she wanted to show this man a fun time? Teasing someone, do you honestly think she's going to be that gullible? What if this scene was just the build up to romance, what if it wasn't?

What if it rain today? What if it didn't, the cliche. I think what I like to do in situations like these is see what people think when they first see it.

Thank you for your critique. I believe that people do not deserve to fully understand what and who my characters are at this point in time, I understand that the simplicity of just adding dialogue for your characters would make a reader appreciate your story that much more. I can create conversations, but it is best done with my own setting, my own coincidences.

I don't want my stories to be remembered for a "Standard" of what people think is acceptable, I want them to remember why they love something, why they don't mind taking time out of their day to enjoy something.

A standard of what people think is acceptable should be having a heart, having real heart for your stories. Not this format that gets a laugh and profit, I want something real don't you think people want to believe that to?


You can't keep writing off the page. Now, for a full length work, obviously there are going to be outside circumstances and character building that comes to light elsewhere and informs other actions. That is perfectly normal (however, you have to remember that if something doesn't make sense to someone, they aren't going to retain that information (this goes for both "fantasy speak" and "over your head" conversations and more). If you want your characters to have a conversation that the reader won't understand until later in the book, if you aren't giving them something concrete to latch onto, you are just going in one ear and out the other and that should never really be the goal unless you are going for some meta stuff (which probably isn't a good idea)).

However, in a short, self contained piece like this, you only have what has been written. A contradiction or illogical action stays as an illogical action. You cannot use the imagination of the reader as a replacement for good character building or good writing. It is your job to guide the reader and tell them how to interpret things. If you aren't doing that, you aren't doing your job. There are certainly times when you don't need to explain certain things, or when you can let a contradiction speak for itself, but you have to consider the effect of contradictions and logic breaks on the reader.

In this story, what function does a lack of external consistency in a character's actions serve? What benefit is derived out of writing characters who feel like they are acting at the whim of a writer and not on their own volition? How does this contribute to the intent of the story that better writing would not achieve more thoroughly?

Note: External consistency refers to how the logic of your writing aligns with the logic of the real world. Typically, to a reader, it is assumed that writing exists with the same rules as the known universe unless stated otherwise.

I've said this to you before, but the uniqueness of a piece of art should not be defined by its weaknesses, but instead its strengths. Accepting unique mediocrity over standard quality demonstrates a lack of faith in one's own abilities.
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Posted 6/5/18 , edited 6/5/18

sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:

Well I thought it was adorable.

Again it was a Cliche, so characters randomly getting comfortable while being strangers is the coincidence of the situation. Strangers hiding from the rain? Come on now, who is naturally going to want a boring outcome. So when you roll your eyes at certain parts, that's what I'm looking for. Maybe to those characters it means something, but to you it doesn't, but yet you did well enough to come along for the ride.

You don't know how old they are. Just little details I think you missed. Folding his blazer, calling him boy, being somewhat physical knowing he wouldn't get angry.

Romance? What if she wanted to show this man a fun time? Teasing someone, do you honestly think she's going to be that gullible? What if this scene was just the build up to romance, what if it wasn't?

What if it rain today? What if it didn't, the cliche. I think what I like to do in situations like these is see what people think when they first see it.

Thank you for your critique. I believe that people do not deserve to fully understand what and who my characters are at this point in time, I understand that the simplicity of just adding dialogue for your characters would make a reader appreciate your story that much more. I can create conversations, but it is best done with my own setting, my own coincidences.

I don't want my stories to be remembered for a "Standard" of what people think is acceptable, I want them to remember why they love something, why they don't mind taking time out of their day to enjoy something.

A standard of what people think is acceptable should be having a heart, having real heart for your stories. Not this format that gets a laugh and profit, I want something real don't you think people want to believe that to?


You can't keep writing off the page. Now, for a full length work, obviously there are going to be outside circumstances and character building that comes to light elsewhere and informs other actions. That is perfectly normal (however, you have to remember that if something doesn't make sense to someone, they aren't going to retain that information (this goes for both "fantasy speak" and "over your head" conversations and more). If you want your characters to have a conversation that the reader won't understand until later in the book, if you aren't giving them something concrete to latch onto, you are just going in one ear and out the other and that should never really be the goal unless you are going for some meta stuff (which probably isn't a good idea)).

However, in a short, self contained piece like this, you only have what has been written. A contradiction or illogical action stays as an illogical action. You cannot use the imagination of the reader as a replacement for good character building or good writing. It is your job to guide the reader and tell them how to interpret things. If you aren't doing that, you aren't doing your job. There are certainly times when you don't need to explain certain things, or when you can let a contradiction speak for itself, but you have to consider the effect of contradictions and logic breaks on the reader.

In this story, what function does a lack of external consistency in a character's actions serve? What benefit is derived out of writing characters who feel like they are acting at the whim of a writer and not on their own volition? How does this contribute to the intent of the story that better writing would not achieve more thoroughly?

Note: External consistency refers to how the logic of your writing aligns with the logic of the real world. Typically, to a reader, it is assumed that writing exists with the same rules as the known universe unless stated otherwise.

I've said this to you before, but the uniqueness of a piece of art should not be defined by its weaknesses, but instead its strengths. Accepting unique mediocrity over standard quality demonstrates a lack of faith in one's own abilities.


All I'm saying is that what I wrote is self contained.

Whatever people want to believe, that is what they create in their mind. I am simply telling you that there are endless routes or possibilities, to an extent, for what I wrote. Let someone take it somewhere, as you did.

You thought it was romance, what if someone thought differently?

It was a fun little piece that I might play around with honestly.

Why do you think I don't write about normal situations like this? Because I believe in my abilities to create something out of the ordinary.

Look I get it, there's a standard for everything. Not creativity, not creation. I'm sorry, there is just a unique way people go about creating something, that's what I feel.

What people enjoy, what people familiarize themselves with is entirely up to the writer. There are no rules, but there has to be a reality that people can accept, I understand there has to be logic
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Posted 6/5/18 , edited 6/5/18

Humms wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:

Well I thought it was adorable.

Again it was a Cliche, so characters randomly getting comfortable while being strangers is the coincidence of the situation. Strangers hiding from the rain? Come on now, who is naturally going to want a boring outcome. So when you roll your eyes at certain parts, that's what I'm looking for. Maybe to those characters it means something, but to you it doesn't, but yet you did well enough to come along for the ride.

You don't know how old they are. Just little details I think you missed. Folding his blazer, calling him boy, being somewhat physical knowing he wouldn't get angry.

Romance? What if she wanted to show this man a fun time? Teasing someone, do you honestly think she's going to be that gullible? What if this scene was just the build up to romance, what if it wasn't?

What if it rain today? What if it didn't, the cliche. I think what I like to do in situations like these is see what people think when they first see it.

Thank you for your critique. I believe that people do not deserve to fully understand what and who my characters are at this point in time, I understand that the simplicity of just adding dialogue for your characters would make a reader appreciate your story that much more. I can create conversations, but it is best done with my own setting, my own coincidences.

I don't want my stories to be remembered for a "Standard" of what people think is acceptable, I want them to remember why they love something, why they don't mind taking time out of their day to enjoy something.

A standard of what people think is acceptable should be having a heart, having real heart for your stories. Not this format that gets a laugh and profit, I want something real don't you think people want to believe that to?


You can't keep writing off the page. Now, for a full length work, obviously there are going to be outside circumstances and character building that comes to light elsewhere and informs other actions. That is perfectly normal (however, you have to remember that if something doesn't make sense to someone, they aren't going to retain that information (this goes for both "fantasy speak" and "over your head" conversations and more). If you want your characters to have a conversation that the reader won't understand until later in the book, if you aren't giving them something concrete to latch onto, you are just going in one ear and out the other and that should never really be the goal unless you are going for some meta stuff (which probably isn't a good idea)).

However, in a short, self contained piece like this, you only have what has been written. A contradiction or illogical action stays as an illogical action. You cannot use the imagination of the reader as a replacement for good character building or good writing. It is your job to guide the reader and tell them how to interpret things. If you aren't doing that, you aren't doing your job. There are certainly times when you don't need to explain certain things, or when you can let a contradiction speak for itself, but you have to consider the effect of contradictions and logic breaks on the reader.

In this story, what function does a lack of external consistency in a character's actions serve? What benefit is derived out of writing characters who feel like they are acting at the whim of a writer and not on their own volition? How does this contribute to the intent of the story that better writing would not achieve more thoroughly?

Note: External consistency refers to how the logic of your writing aligns with the logic of the real world. Typically, to a reader, it is assumed that writing exists with the same rules as the known universe unless stated otherwise.

I've said this to you before, but the uniqueness of a piece of art should not be defined by its weaknesses, but instead its strengths. Accepting unique mediocrity over standard quality demonstrates a lack of faith in one's own abilities.


All I'm saying is that what I wrote is self contained.

Whatever people want to believe, that is what they create in their mind. I am simply telling you that there are endless routes or possibilities, to an extent, for what I wrote. Let someone take it somewhere, as you did.

You thought it was romance, what if someone thought differently?

It was a fun little piece that I might play around with honestly.

Why do you think I don't write about normal situations like this? Because I believe in my abilities to create something out of the ordinary.

Look I get it, there's a standard for everything. Not creativity, not creation. I'm sorry, there is just a unique way people go about creating something, that's what I feel.

What people enjoy, what people familiarize themselves with is entirely up to the writer. There are no rules, but there has to be a reality that people can accept, I understand there has to be logic


"If one person interprets that as romance and another person doesn't, I think you've failed as a writer," he says with a sigh. His face falls gently into his hands as he wipes away the stress.

"But art is about interpretation and the subjective experience."

"Well, yeah. Art is about interpretation but that doesn't mean that the audience should be interpreting whether a character actually went to the store. There are several different kinds of functions here. Like, the audience should be left to take out of a work things like moral or philosophical statements, not actions or base character motivations. If you try to make everything interpretable, you aren't creating a fun and unique experience for everybody, you are creating mush. Just an unintelligible mass of ambiguity."

He slides his tea towards himself on the table. The mug was cold. Exactly how long had this conversation been going on for? His eyes perused the mug, making patterns out of nothing to try to ignore the awkward silence. There was always this point in the conversation where the disagreement fizzled and they realized they had nothing in common. Tea usually helps, but what was sitting in his hands was now just a half-assed interpretation of iced tea which didn't check all the boxes required to make it worthwhile. He slid it back onto the table and looked up.

The other man was occupying himself with this or that, likely filling the same function. Killing time until the conversation died naturally. Neither could quite bring themselves to put it out of it's misery.

"I don't agree," the argument whimpered.

"Yeah, well I guess we have one thing in common after all."

"Art is infinite. Art can be anything."

"Unless it sucks."

"Does it stop being art."

"It stops being worthwhile. Isn't that worse?"

The other man only gave a resigned sigh in response.

"It's been good," said the man, stretching his legs and grabbing his umbrella.

"Yeah."

"See ya."
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Posted 6/5/18 , edited 6/6/18

sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


Humms wrote:






All I'm saying is that what I wrote is self contained.

Whatever people want to believe, that is what they create in their mind. I am simply telling you that there are endless routes or possibilities, to an extent, for what I wrote. Let someone take it somewhere, as you did.

You thought it was romance, what if someone thought differently?

It was a fun little piece that I might play around with honestly.

Why do you think I don't write about normal situations like this? Because I believe in my abilities to create something out of the ordinary.

Look I get it, there's a standard for everything. Not creativity, not creation. I'm sorry, there is just a unique way people go about creating something, that's what I feel.

What people enjoy, what people familiarize themselves with is entirely up to the writer. There are no rules, but there has to be a reality that people can accept, I understand there has to be logic


"If one person interprets that as romance and another person doesn't, I think you've failed as a writer," he says with a sigh. His face falls gently into his hands as he wipes away the stress.

"But art is about interpretation and the subjective experience."

"Well, yeah. Art is about interpretation but that doesn't mean that the audience should be interpreting whether a character actually went to the store. There are several different kinds of functions here. Like, the audience should be left to take out of a work things like moral or philosophical statements, not actions or base character motivations. If you try to make everything interpretable, you aren't creating a fun and unique experience for everybody, you are creating mush. Just an unintelligible mass of ambiguity."

He slides his tea towards himself on the table. The mug was cold. Exactly how long had this conversation been going on for? His eyes perused the mug, making patterns out of nothing to try to ignore the awkward silence. There was always this point in the conversation where the disagreement fizzled and they realized they had nothing in common. Tea usually helps, but what was sitting in his hands was now just a half-assed interpretation of iced tea which didn't check all the boxes required to make it worthwhile. He slid it back onto the table and looked up.

The other man was occupying himself with this or that, likely filling the same function. Killing time until the conversation died naturally. Neither could quite bring themselves to put it out of it's misery.

"I don't agree," the argument whimpered.

"Yeah, well I guess we have one thing in common after all."

"Art is infinite. Art can be anything."

"Unless it sucks."

"Does it stop being art."

"It stops being worthwhile. Isn't that worse?"

The other man only gave a resigned sigh in response.

"It's been good," said the man, stretching his legs and grabbing his umbrella.

"Yeah."

"See ya."




Look I'm not trying to be a dick.

I just never have fun with my writing, it's usually very personal and has a lot of meaning to me.

This just opened a lot of different scenarios. It could become this, or it could become that.

Just because I don't bend over to the WRITERS WAY. That doesn't mean I won't be able to move people.

How do you even know what's worthwhile? All you do is critique people. That's what everyone does

Well I'm not everyone else. I'm having fun with writing, whatever becomes of it, to be determined.

Just because I don't listen to a teacher or professor, does that mean I am to become a failure in what I do?

So I'm going to keep smiling and having fun, because that's what a good life consists of
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Posted 11/23/18 , edited 11/24/18
I have no idea what you two are arguing about, but I like pictures in the original post. The expression on the girl's face is very funny. It's like she doesn't want her picture taken (drawn)
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